This is a developing story. They were told No, we have it under control.. Even if the new construction doesnt suffer from the eventual degradation of the old foundation, years after you have rebuilt and want to sell your cabin, due to prior disclosure malls when you tell a prospective buyer that your foundation went through the 100 year fire which burned your foundation at 1400 to 3000 F, only a fool would buy it. A lot of personnel put forth heroic efforts to save lives and we should all be grateful for that. Any time our community suffers a great loss or devastation like this, it impacts everybody, she said. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1477959465566642&id=100000578092120. I am positive that for anyone who gives of themselves to protect and serve will forever be haunted by that far more than anyone of us can expect to hold them accountable by lynching. Fire behavior is predictable, based on things such as mentioned in this article; weather, terrain and fuels. they may be using too wide a brush to place blame. So this has affected everyone in the area in one form or another. I just hope, like Jeannine, that fire managers can learn from this tragedy because we really need the tool of prescribed fire in the tool box. Who knows what the climate will bring next year. It took the governor to get the lack of evac into the open, as local gov was trying to keep it out of the press. Take my word for it, Ive seen back scratching going on down there for over 40 years. Most of us are hopeful the two young man responsible for causing this fire will be severely punished however after all of the expert testimony to not only the Knoxville news Sentinel times what other periodicals claiming gross mishandling of the beginning of the Chimney Tops 2 fire by the forestry service as well as the Gatlinburg fire department I am certain that the Philadelphia lawyer that they have hired will use this in their defense and I would not bet that they will get a much lighter sentence as a result . This makes no logical sense. One person was found dead in the rubble of a fire that broke out in downtown Gatlinburg early Sunday morning. For now there is heartbreak and hindsight on the part of every one now. For the most part, the issues are with the Upper Brass. They are having a press conference this afternoon so perhaps there will be more transparency. Council will utilize the 100s of wildfire experts testimony that the forresty service and local fire chief should have thrown everything they had at the Chimney 2 blaze the day it happened and everyone and every resource they could use from out of state that could get there within 24 hours. We went to West TN for Thanksgiving Holidays and came back home to Gatlinburg on Sunday. When I crawled my way up Pinecrest Drive to Wiley Oakley through dense smoke, I saw a Gatlinburg pumper at the top of the hill. there is nothing that can address the failure of leadership at every level that contributed to that loss of life. What makes one golden and one not? We were wearing bandanas wrapped around our faces at this point. I have wanted to learn because I dont know enough to say much, but when I read your two posts about the loss of your cabin, and your escape, I felt I had to say, Im so sorry, to you, and probably speak for many many others who did not find this blog and find an avenue to learn, listen and to speak. My husband and I were at our house in Gatlinburg, just north of the Park Vista, on the night of the fire. Drought, fall winds, fuel moistures that havent recovered in months, what part of this disaster was a surprise. Chief Kurtz was right on target to compare South Canyon, Yarnell, and now Chimney Top 2. Im surprised Cherokee Orchard Rd. How many resources were on how many fires at that time in this region and in others? Jeanne: I do not disagree with your thought process regarding some of the broad challenges wildland fire mangers have faced in the past thirty some years. Perhaps all the firefighters prior experience was giving them mental slides that were no longer valid given the conditions. He promised a committee to study what happened and there has been no word since. The fire occurred in the Autumn after the deciduous trees had shed their leaves adding more fuel to the forest floor that was already abundant with desiccated leaves, twigs, dead branches, and logs that had been sucked dry of their moisture by the months of drought. Many, if not most, of these incidents leave the confines of the managing agency and sweep out onto lands owned or managed by others. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. That is when it would have been prudent to announce a pre-evacuation notice for the Gatlinburg area to be ready to evacuate if an evacuation order is announced. Once again, can fire discreetly smolder in the duff amid rock crevices? I think wildland fire managers should be commended that this fire did not result in a tragic firefighter incident like Yarnell Hills. I am thankful so many are not only opening their eyes here, but taking action and questioning. The two juveniles who set a fire are not alone in this. What were the emergency managers of this county doing/thinking at this time? Increasing cloudiness and strong southerly winds on Monday ahead of the next storm system. Property owners still have the rights to protect their property. Love your neighbors, yes. Back home in West TN, when tornado warnings were active in a particular area there were loud sirens that went off. As citizens we should be aware of all threats we face and expect our leadership to plan ahead as best they can. I am a management specialist and I understand how to plan, and implement risk-protection and safety in many kinds of settings, to address various threats to people. First rule of any structure fire or wildfire. I wish the Feds had kept the case instead of handing it off to the local DA. there is still a nagging question regarding the use of BACKFIRE on the part of the NPS and the Gatlinburg Fires? Very well put Mari. Yes government at all levels needs to be held accountable; otherwise we regress back into the Dark Ages. Cafe 420 and Gifts of Gatlinburg were also destroyed. I know for a fact that all humans are not as tuned into Nature as others. Contractor will be on site this weekend with a subcontractor cleaning up my debris and really pouring my foundation and my logs will arrive within 15 days or more . Much needed rainfall is expected on Monday with additional rainfall possible through Wednesday. This fire season is a perfect example of why we do not need to lynch and discard those who have erred but gained highly valuable experience in the process. That said, we are now in the rebuild mode. Spirit Airlines . This article shows NPS was concerned by and notified of impending high winds. The reason that is a point is IMT has experience far beyond any fire teams in east TN or GSMNP, especially with wind-driven wildfires. I learned so much from the Incident Management Team websites for the various big fires in the mountains (Cohuttas, Joyce Kilmer, Standing Indian, Boteler, Tellico, Party Rock, Pinnacle Mountain). Who allowed this to happen? Out of all the issues evolving around negligence and what could have been done, etc. Where the fire burned the valley floor, the desiccated hemlock burned freely and fully. An ongoing lawsuit against the National Park Service over its handling of the 2016 Gatlinburg Wildfire is on hold as a federal judge considers a motion to dismiss the suit. The forecasts from the 24th through the 26th did not predict the extreme weather that began Monday, November 28. Thanksfully ATF agents helped TN Bureau of Investigation put their full resources at hand and arrested to two teenage idiots that started the fire. I hope the recordings werent pulled under threat of someones attorney or the DA. Especially our local emergency workers and the Park Service. That didnt work out. Who can or will hold them accountable for their part in this tragedy? Thought among the locals is that officials didnt want to lose the post-holiday weekend crowd and revenue. Also. Over 3000 wildfires received Initial Attack in November in the southern Appalachians, many of which were still very active when Chimney Tops 2 started. Thats perfect Johnny. The Gatlinburg Fire Department was dispatched to the 700 block of Parkway in downtown Gatlinburg at 6:39 a.m. on October 9. Would it be wise to implement backfire with such strong winds forecasted on top of exceptional drought and fuels? In regard to the Knoxville News Sentinel article by Don Jacobs and an apparent press release statement by the Deputy Superintendent of GSMNP: There was no way the fire could have been extinguished before the winds came. Jordan says. The report stated the demolition was requested due to the health and safety of the citizens and visitors in the event of a full structure collapse.. The winds were getting stronger. I told him there wasnt when I got there at 5 oclock but I could not even see driveways on the way up. That didnt happen here. The IMT reported that the fire had not increased in size over the previous 24 hours and was still listed at 17,006 acres. But very little if any fire suppression activity occurred until Monday, November 28. Many locals are saying the lack of evac was income driven. Finally, the Superintendent has the power to call up all the resources which were available. Officials identified Robert A. Hejny, 63, who was found at Traveler's Motel in Gatlinburg. There is much opportunity in the Eastern Appalachians to better prepare citizens, towns , leaders and firefighters; To create more fire aware and safe communities. She replied, Mrs. It predicted wind gusts out of the south Monday morning of 25 mph, increasing atnoonto30 mph and to 40 mph by 6 p.m. The People have been deceived with a vague and biased investigation regarding this particular bear incident. Bats were roosting in the church rafters and dropping feces onto the pews. GATLINBURG, Tennessee -- The charges have been dropped against two teens who were accused of starting the wildfires in Gatlinburg last fall. This Park Ranger was appointed to this position in December 2014 and he took office in February 2015, so in a span of one year and nine months he managed to let the place burn and we have owned property there for 32 years and nothing remotely like this has ever happened. Will Lessons Learned fade into distant short-term US fire management history archives once again. etc. Even though they are showing people receiving checks the day they apply, this was not the case for him. Maybe within the next year, well see some kind of progress come together, said Neddo. 1,000 feet of rise / 0.2 mile (1,056 feet) is a slope of 94.7%, not 77%. We have turned in a claim but still no word on a settlement. Many times this tactic takes commitment of over a week. People in our country must get this, because for all the overwhelming issues in our country today, they keep voting many of the same politicians back into office over and over and over again expecting a different outcome. I phoned 911 and reported that the fire was approaching our home and that it was within a few feet of the city/park boundary. The wildfire began burning in a remote location of the park (Chimney Tops) in steep terrain with vertical cliffs and narrow rocky ridges, making access to the wildfire area . Anyone who has toured the hillsides where most of the homes that were destroyed would know immediately how difficult evacuations would be. Why did they wait until Monday to do a voluntary a evacuation or were the city father is involved in the decision not to panic the thousands and thousands of people still there for the Thanksgiving holiday. > Jeannine In my 40 years in the fire service (Calif and Alaska), I have seen an unfortunate number of cases where agencies in generaland the NPS in particulardesignate fires as monitored event(s) (insert favorite agency terminology here) that hours, or days, later explode into huge incidents. We have border issues, at the local levels, states rights and federal rights that are still at issue, leadership silos, and rising political issues. It was as if time had passed with no motivational disaster to spur this awareness, at least not in my local community. Many structures were lost- thankfully no lives. Thank you for making a point of the fact that we are all human beings with faults by design so that we need each other to succeed and survive. I have been on both sides of that equation before and still real-ling from my own losses that will negatively affect me and my family for life, because no one took the time to question or look into the story presented to them by those authorities in charge. The park needs to share accountability in this situation, and all of us who have formerly worked in fire realize this. I can only hope that the actions are being undertaken somewhere and by the decision-makers and leaders to think and act differently. It works like an Amber Alert to people who download the app and sign up. Cleanup continued Tuesday, with crews piling up rubble near Traffic Light 6 on the Gatlinburg Pkwy. Numerous photos show a dramatic increase in smoke in the downtown area between 5 and 5:30 pm. A similar fire occurred on English Mountain. Kelly Morgans comments may have been harsh and offensive to some folks; but when government builds a wall; sometimes it takes a loud voice to get their attention. This is what happened with a handful of officials/personnel regarding the fatal 2000 black bear mauling of a woman hiker in Elkmont. A couple of weeks after hearing no hardcore news from Knox News, I wrote the editor asking if the News was still doing hardcore investigation of the fire. China Bazaar, Pucker's Sports Grill, Gifts of Gatlinburg, and Caf 420 were all deemed a complete loss. If you had transposed the same fire with similar conditions to California or Idaho would it have been managed the same way? I would like to know if the same two kids are also responsible for the first Chimney fire? I heard a comment that people have the use common sense. But until the review of the fire is complete and the report is published, I would be careful with a statement like this: The Chimney Tops fire was a wildfire being monitored given limited resources initially because of the many other ongoing fires in the region to which fire-fighting resources were committed. Many fire managers in that situation would immediately attack emerging fires very aggressively with overwhelming force, that is, many firefighters on the ground assisted by numerous aircraft dropping water or fire retardant. Asked if I knew if there were any other people down in that area. People were ready to leave their home in 15 min. All downtown sidewalks reopened as permanent fencing around the building was installed by the property owner following the fire. The lines between reality and virtual reality or fake reality are so blurred. James, thank you for that compliment! Thanks for the legwork. Blame, no. They decided instead to monitor and to identifyon a map areas for indirect containment lines which encompassed 410 acres. These things dont come with the same cheap city plans out here in the rural mountainous zones! Monday I was surprised to look at the Knoxville News and see nothing about evacuation notices. No one wanted the castrophe that resulted. Would the apparent 24 hour plus monitoring bring into question a lack of response to suppress the fire considering the exceptional drought and excessive fuels? When the Chimney Tops 2 Fire burned into Gatlinburg on November 28, 2016 and destroyed thosestructures it was drivenprimarily by weather specifically, very strong winds. Instead, the city ordered evacuation of the neighborhoods nearest the NPS day use area that was on fire (Mynatt Park and others). God doesnt cut financial budgets. The successes, and the losses, the poor decisions, the mistakes, the error and the failures. Do we need to learn from it. There were cliffs in the area but firefighting Hotshot Crews can figure out how to work on steep slopes, sometimes backing off a bit, constructing a fire line and intentionally burning the fuel in between, preventing further expansion of the fire. Damage was estimated at. Whether it be a resources, financial, training, bias, discriminatory, knowledge, failure to support, equipment or other systemic, human, data or other failures; we often seek to put the blame on any one or a few of the workers when the real root of the problems lies in systemic, resource or other human interaction issues and decisions made by others seemingly unconnected to the immediate event. But the condition of the fuel was also important since it happenedduring what the National Weather Service (NWS) calls exceptional drought conditions. When we got to end of Beech Branch Rd., and turned onto Spur, there was no traffic but the winds were getting worse. Guessing the fire spotted from the Chimneys, to Bullhead, then on to Twin Creeks area. What about firefighter safety? Even the courts of law no longer put as heavy weight on personal testimony, as so much has been proven to so easily be manipulated and affected by a host of factors. What is these adults had taken immediate action to correct and intervene in this unsafe behavior by children. I would also hope that we would figure out that such major climate disruptions as the recent drought in the Southeast are getting more common and that human action has helped cause, and can help cure, such disruptions. Park Service has not issued any warnings and there are no active fires in Gatlinburg city limits. I ask her if they had plans of issuing a warning if evacuations became necessary and ask her how they would do that. Money. But those heroes should have never been in that situation in the first place. Our government has been paying these communications companies millions in tax breaks and tax dollars to provide cellular and other affordable services to rural America, and they are failing to do so or providing the services at outrageous rates. Officials said three people were found dead from fires in the Chalet Village area, and one person was discovered dead near a motel on Highway 321. I began picking up news stories of the fire in Gatlinburg from as the storm rolled east. No evacuation orders issued- If I had gone to work that day my two sons would be dead. of them backing up and saying this isnt our problem we are carrying on just like always. Location field must contain 'city, state' or a zip code to perform a radius search (e.g., Denver, CO or 46122).City and state must be separated by a comma followed by a space (e.g., Houston, TX) The news person is very frustrated as she nor their rival Channel 8 can do no interviews due to the gag order. I agree with you Bill that it isnt Most but whether it is a few or many isnt the point for me. The leadership tetrahedron if you will, the area where all the parts come together based on the past, the current, the potential and the possible. Had they viewed the Chimney Tops 2 fire as though it was in the forested southwest Im sure they would have issued pre-evacuation notices up to 48 hours prior to the wind events of that Monday. On November 11 some hikers found a fire built in the middle of the trail on brushy mountain trail. Of course they wont. There is no cost, and in case you change your mind each email has an unsubscribe button. High winds were to start soon and rain was 5 hours away as indicated by radar. In addition, the valley above Gatlinburg, drained by LeConte Creek, has had enormous numbers of dead hemlock standing and fallen. This rain took much of the heat out of the vegetation fire and slowed the spread, but smoke from the burning structures in the communities and smouldering logs in the Park continued to fill the air. Excellent points, Jody. The news media started out just like the city news conference people leading people to believe the fire that burned everything occurred on November 28th, not true. We couldnt go up Motor Nature Trail so we went back to Cherokee Orchard Road. Good comments by all. Having said that, I used to work on an incident management team whose purpose was to manage what we called years ago, let burn fires. Most excellently put, Jeannine (you are an exceptional writer). So sometime during the night as we now know everything burned down. Like I said this is like so many tragic events, a chain reaction of events that all contributed to a disastrous outcome, because of actions and inactions that were not questioned or corrected at many steps of the way. I was on the phone w them that Mon. They learned. Hopefully all of those affected will be able to begin again. Given the wind forecast, pre-evac notice should have gone out on Sunday, Monday morning at latest. When one seriously examines the events, these lives could have been spared despite the power of fire and wind. View all posts by Bill Gabbert. I feel sad for everyone involved. On-the-ground fire suppression activity took place Monday when firefighters took defensive action to protect structures at a nearby GRSM picnic area. I think 6 days should have been plenty of time for them to do something we now see what inaction causes, dont we. For the region, I hope fire officials do realize that regional history makes little difference if the right combination of factors exists for rapid and extreme fire growth. He yelled at Bates to get out, and Bates did leave before coming back without the worker knowing. And I dont write about that many of them. It was about this time that we noticed the wind beginning to get stronger. For the availability of resources our local volunteer departments are doing a good job, but things are changing and we need to get out of the boxes we are in, and start critical thinking and creatively to meet the challenges of the future because they are rapidly descending upon us whether we like it or not. Im thankful to be tuned in. Will there be an independent, non-federal agency, through,unbiased, unedited final incident management and serious accident investigation? How about that for arm chair quarter backing. Their chronological order of events doesnt match up with what some folks were observing posted on social media. The city and the county has always been about one thing. Prescribed burning is a critical ecosystem management tool across the nation, especially in the Southeast (https://goodfires.org/how) and when the term is used interchangeably with monitored wildfires it can lead to confusion. Why is forestry both national and state not working more collaboratively with citizens and local fire departments to improve awareness and preparation? I hold you in my thoughts and prayers for healing and recovery there are others who have posted about their losses on this blog, Kelly for one, and I did not give myself peymidfipn to say these words to them at the time .. By the end of the day on Sunday the fire had burned approximately 35 acres, according to Ms. Schroer and the results from a mapping flight (see the 3-D mapabove). While I had the privilege is having dinner with the NPS director at a prescribed fire conference I am just a retired rx fire practitioner. If they had taken action the day it started instead of now using the excuse of the rough terrain, yeah it is but so is most mountain areas. As I learned in the first 12 hours what took place there, I realized that there was almost no preparation for the risk of a fire, on any The fire continued to spread throughout the entire structure. Regardless, the appropriate aerial assault should continue. Great job on this website, it is very informative and I recommend it to everyone in the business. I think the point is that IMT managed wildfires in the southeast had residents in pre-evac mode when high winds were forecast before each cold front passed. By the way, the drainage to the northwest, where NPS had placed their line, is .2 mile and ~1,000 feet vertical (77% grade) of mostly weathered rock. Two Hawaii police departments are making moves to beef up incentives as recruiting efforts grow more competitive. Who was responsible for Gatlinburg fire? To repeat what you have already said, people on the mountain especially Chalet Village north, no longer feel safe . Yet, at that very time, citizens were asking city employees and fireman if they should evacuate (well documented in the local news). Fire crews were dispatched to a structure fire around 6:30. The decisions that worked made us heroes, and those that did not changed us if we were allowed that opportunity. Over 130 sustained injuries, and 1,684 structures have been damaged or destroyed. If that was the case, then they had to be fully aware that the fire was going to come down the mountain and burn not only NPS structures, but Gatlinburg structures as well? But any land manager that expects to allow active spreading fire behavior for weeks or months is knowingly taking a risk that a wind event unpredictable weeks or months in advance will occur and change everything, sometimes with a very undesirable outcome. Your are correct; and we all pray and hope for the community to get back on their feet again. These fires were allowed to cook with little or no suppression action. Tunica, MS, from our area near Kansas City, to arrive late evening, that day, in Tunica. Visited Gatlinburg for the first time in Oct 2016. Finally a local coalition was formed to put pressure on NPS officials to uphold their mandate on historic structures. Very good pictures! Early in the afternoon we began to see large crewcab pickup trucks driving past our home. The fire gutted the entire city block and closed a dozen businesses. Late Monday afternoon the Gatlinburg Fire Department began informing some residents of a voluntary evacuation. Brush fires spread across multiple counties this afternoon in Southwest Florida due to high winds. Fire managers brought in resources from all over the country. I can feel for the service providers and the devastated fire victims. There are other potential hazards that make unplanned evacuations a danger in that area. Triage of resource needs versus values at risk, firefighter safety, resource values and political realities all come into play. You are correct in pointing out the dead hemlocks. That and your wish to pay 50% income tax and there will never be a fire again! It was so blatant and irresponsible of the media station to broadcast in this manner especially under the current circumstances. My questions are: what were the wind speeds when NPS crews ignited these backfires to protect NPS structures; and if they ignited fire on the 28th when the winds were getting stronger and stronger, would the potential exist for backfire embers to get out of control? Also important is accountability, so is teaching, learning and experience, so is action, so is on and on. You can only manage one of those. A true lackadaisical response. Incident Mgt. Youre right change is hard to come by. I always come back to that groupthink mentality, the ladder of inference, the been there done that mode, the failure/fear to act, and thats how weve always done it thinking; all part of how our unconscious brain works without our conscious intervention and critical thinking skills. He asked them how or who we could contact to get emergency information. I know its good and natural periodically to let forest fires burn, but under the extreme drought conditions in this area, I was uneasy that fires werent being put out. GFD officials examined the scene and found a body, later identified as Joe Martin Bates, in Suite 4. Yes. Would be interesting to dig down to find the ash line (which is probably illegal on federal lands). I hope the governors investigation team finds all of the miscues AND gets proper training for all the different agencies involved. The main road out of Gatlinburg is the Spur, which is the 5 mile stretch of Park Service Road that lies between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg. Travelers are urged to avoid the area at this time. My main purpose in commenting was to differentiate between a monitored wildfire and prescribed fire. I called Bob, boys and I got a bite to eat for supper so we wouldnt be a bother to our friends whose house we were going to wait out the evening. How many sorties could those planes do in an single day even if they had been deployed on Even Friday?? The one picture showing a PVC clean-out with charring on it is a very good example of a very fast, hot torch of flame blasting a relatively small area.
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